Fail Fast, Lead Fearlessly: Brandon Sawalich on Building Culture and Disrupting an Industry

[00:00:00] Charles Eide: Brandon Sawalich. Welcome. Thank you, Charles. It’s good to have you. I’m excited to be here today. A lot of people call you a disruptor in your industry. Yes. 

[00:00:11] Origins of Innovation and Leadership Journey

[00:00:11] Charles Eide: You have changed the world in a lot of ways, and I just want to get, before we get into the detail of it, how did you become a disruptor? What made you the way you are?

[00:00:25] Brandon Sawalich: Oh, I could go back to my childhood probably, but I think for me it’s always been, you know, I’ve, uh, it’s not that I like to FA rule follower, but I like to like, okay, how do we make it better? Mm-hmm. You know, it’s for me, whether it was when I was growing up and in schools playing sports, what can I do that the others aren’t?

To get an advantage or to make something complex, simple. And for me it’s, I’m always pushing, pushing myself and, and my team will probably tell you others, uh, themselves because for me, it’s, it’s not that it’s never good enough. We could do more. We do better. How do we do better? And so, you know, it’s, uh, it’s like a big puzzle in my mind.

And so I’m pushing, putting pieces together. I’m trying new pieces. Or you know, you wanna change things. So I tell people at Starkey or my kids challenge the, because. Yeah, because I heard a lot of why did we do it that way? Well, because that’s the way we’ve always done it. No, you can’t, you know, whether it’s in life or business, you have to be willing to try new things.

[00:01:31] Charles Eide: Yeah. I remember reading that article that Damon published. Mm-hmm. And you were talking about challenging because Yeah. And I was like, that is such a great way to look at things. Here at EideCom, we do the same thing. It’s, you know, rethink the rethink, what’s possible. Mm-hmm. Right. I love that about Starkey. I think it’s amazing.

What do you think the advantage is when you do that? 

[00:01:55] Brandon Sawalich: Um, I think there’s a couple components to that advantage, I think. It’s the culture of Starkey. The talent that we have we’re privately held, so where there’s more flexibility. Mm-hmm. And to take risks to try new things.  

And then there’s some things that, that are successful. And then you have to have the temperament patient and the instinct to 

[00:02:22] Building an Innovative Company Culture

[00:02:22] Brandon Sawalich: know how hard or fast you wanna push it. ’cause some things have to develop on their own. So sometimes you gotta let the game come to you, but don’t be afraid to, uh, redefine the game or re reset the rules.

[00:02:34] Charles Eide: I mean, you, you guys play in a space that’s full of monster sized companies mm-hmm. Right? Making technology, but you guys seem to continually come out with things that surprise the entire industry you’re in. How do, how do you, how do you do that? 

[00:02:52] Brandon Sawalich: Um, you know, I have, uh. You know, my, uh, the owner and founder of Starkey, you know, I’ve been around, uh, bill for over 35 years, so I think there’s some osmosis by me being around and seeing how he’s worked or how others, you know, ’cause I’m a big, uh, someone that likes to read a lot of history, but it’s the history, you know, uh, biographies and, and other, uh, people that have been there and done that.

And so I’m always trying to up my game or learn, or. Try new things based on past. And I think as humans in our lives and in profession, if you’re, you know, we’re gonna fail, you’re gonna fail four more times than you, uh, uh, win. And so it’s okay to accept failure. That’s what I tell my son, who’s, you know, in nascar.

And it’s, you know, you’re gonna lose more than you’re gonna win. You’re gonna lose more races than you’re gonna win races, but get better from each moment, get better from each experiment. And we have. Good competition and I respect our competition and you know, I’ve learned from them. Seen what, what’s worked, what hasn’t.

But also then you gotta put all that together and you can’t, for me, it’s important. I don’t wanna be somebody that says, you know, oh, we have that too. Or we’re like them. How do you take the components and then put those components and ingredients into a strong culture industry and then play to our strengths.

Then push things forward where others are afraid to go because there is something to be said about, I said earlier, being a privately held, we can take the risks, we can move faster. I don’t have to wait for a quarterly board meeting or get board approval or anything. You know, I can talk to Bill anytime I need him.

I can talk to my team. They come to me. So we have, you know, what seems like organized chaos brings. Different results. It brings innovation. That’s how you, you know, I don’t want, if I’m the smartest person in the room, there’s a problem. Mm-hmm. So I hire different talents that put together, you know, the great orchestra that plays a symphony.

I conduct a symphony. I don’t have to know how to play each instrument. 

[00:05:04] Charles Eide: When you have a roster of people on your team that are pretty incredible folks. Yes. I mean, with, with careers that. Would blow your mind. 

[00:05:11] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah, no, we have a good mix and, and I’ve learned from that too, how to mix, mix and match and, and set it up depending on where Starkey is in our business phase.

But we have a great team of, of experienced people from the industry, from Starkey, and then you know, other members that are very experienced in technology, AI and engineers, and DNN processing. And I could go down the list. But now, as I said, they’re experienced at Starkey because they’ve learned our industry and they brought that talent, and they have that culture and mindset that makes us even stronger and better, that we can move fast and we try new things and, and we work together and talk about the ideas, and we talk about the outcomes, and then we make decisions.

[00:05:53] Charles Eide: So how do I, you know, for, for the audience, which is mainly CEOs, entrepreneurs, people that are looking to scale and grow and learn about themselves, how do I. How do I determine how I can push what I’m doing? Like what kind of introspection or reflection do you do that helps you figure out what’s next?

Yeah, 

[00:06:16] Brandon Sawalich: good question. It’s, you have to, you have to take care of the current business, right? You’ve gotta make sure that, okay, are we where we need to be with what the market? Demands from our customers and patients. We Starkey, uh, our products technology. It goes to hearing, um, healthcare professionals and audiologists.

They sell their services and our products to the patient so we don’t have a direct one-to-one. So we really have two customers. And you know, it starts with the patient. You know what’s best for the patient, is best for our customer, is best for Starky. That’s how I look at it. Then if I’m looking. Up and out to what’s next?

Where’s the patient going in three to five years? How, how are they gonna go, uh, get hearing aids? Where are they gonna get hearing help? What’s the role of the patient? So my mind starts naturally thinking, okay, so based on my experience from 30 years Yeah. To today, you know, I think you, you know, people can see pretty clearly.

At least I can, you know, three years of her industry. Five years. Okay. An idea. It’s not as clear of a picture. And then 10, you know, the what if the, the, the big goals. Um, but you have to make sure that you’re communicating the vision. You have the right people that are gonna get you to that vision, and you have to have the priorities.

And that’s where I’ve made mistakes before. ’cause something’s really. A great idea and you want to jump on it, eh, it’s about four years of at time because you needed to do, you know, X, y, and Z first to get there. So it’s really planning out your strategy and then making, being patient enough to, uh, have you know the right steps and do a couple things that might need to be done first as trials or pilots.

And then you know how fast you can go because then you know the lay of the land, your customer group. Can they do this? Will they be able to adapt to this technology? Can they talk about fall detection and hearing aids? Can they talk about language translation? How are they going to do that? So you just kinda hit the big topics and then, you know, it’s not all perfect science.

Sometimes, most of the times there’s a lot of risk. Um, but then you gotta measure the risk. Is it low risk or high risk? And, you know. For me, I like to balance it out, but I like the high risk stuff. ’cause that’s the fun stuff. 

[00:08:39] Charles Eide: That’s where the reward is. 

[00:08:40] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah, it is. And the reward for me is, um, winning as a team.

You know, it’s, you know, I know people have different interests and, and need to, that’s fine. You know, when I’m doing things, it’s, how’s it going to, you know, I feel the responsibility. All the people at Starkey, you know, how’s it gonna help Starkey have the people and then position us for. Patient and being the patient’s choice for hearing healthcare.

[00:09:06] Developing Strong Company Culture and Teams

[00:09:06] Charles Eide: Something I’ve really seen you do well, which is hard to get right, is building a good culture. I think you guys have done such a pheno, like a world class job of that, and I, I wanna understand what, what is the mindset of the leadership team on culture and how, how do I build a better culture in my company?

[00:09:28] Brandon Sawalich: It’s, you have to center around the mission statement. And this is the age old, you know, I’ve seen people in companies, you know, I’ve been solicited, Hey, we’re gonna come in, we’ll help you with strategy. We gotta get mission statement. The vision, the vision is keep it simple. If, if you have to, if you have a mission statement, my opinion, over a sentence or two, and you gotta hang it on the wall, but you can’t recite it, um, it’s not a mission statement, you know?

Our mission statement at Starkey was laid out when it was found in 1967. You know, to, to our, the mission at Starkey is to serve our customers better than anyone else. Service. And it’s true. I didn’t, you know, I started at Starkey and kinda in sales and service. I didn’t understand that till, you know, along the way until I, where I’m now.

Um, but then the vision, you have to update that. ’cause that, again, that goes with the times. So you get your team around it. They have to be understand it, bought into it, and then you go, I mean, you just, it’s not something you’re just pretty to hang on a wall or you know, have a team slogan and shirts and everything.

You’ve gotta work towards something. And I, you know, for the 10 years I would specifically theme every meeting, whether it’s to our customers or internally at Starkey, because I knew it was a step to where I wanted to get to. And then I would build my talk track. Presentations, you know, you’ve, your, you and your great team have done many of our events, you know, have, my talk track would be built around that vision.

Mm-hmm. The vision at Starkey is to be the best. Mm. I wanna be the best at what we do, so. Been, you know, the last two years. Excellence. Excellence is all we do. Excellence without exception. And that gets people talking. You know, you have to back up your talk if you say something. And then you have to help them explain what does that mean?

How do I see it, what do I do? And we’ve been doing a great job of, of, uh, getting that culture, or that, I’ll say that mindset. Now, the culture, it comes with hiring, caring people with attitudes because. There’s all sorts of attitudes. And I, I think that’s the truth. And I started, you know, saying this about 10 years ago or so, at the time, HR didn’t care for it.

But, um, I understand. But my, my simple is, you know, we hire for attitude, develop the talent, 

[00:11:57] Charles Eide: hire for attitude. Attitude. Develop the talent. Develop the talent, 

[00:12:00] Brandon Sawalich: because you can’t develop attitude. Oh, that’s good. Because you can, you know, yes, somebody can do an attitude check, but who somebody is, is who they are.

Now, there are specific attitudes and talent that you need in specific roles. Mm-hmm. There’s no question, but you can’t have attitudes or somebody that wants to come in and be the hero all the time, or ego, or we can go down the strengths and weaknesses. It’s the right balance of attitudes. Um. That, you know, I have on the team and I, I feel I’m pretty good at building teams.

Hmm. 

[00:12:33] Charles Eide: You are great at building teams 

[00:12:35] Brandon Sawalich: and, I 

[00:12:35] Charles Eide: mean, you’ve scaled Starkey big time Yeah. By building teams. Yes. 

[00:12:39] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah. And so I, like I said earlier, I don’t wanna be the smartest person in the room. So I get, I know my strengths and then I need, I know what strengths I need to bring in, but I gotta have the attitude.

I’ve gotta have that innovator attitude that somebody that’s, you know, not afraid of taking risks or can push things that doesn’t get nervous or have anxiety, or is always puts us in crisis mode. 

[00:13:01] Charles Eide: I just love that. I think that the attitude thing is something I’m gonna totally take away. It’s like, uh, here we have core values, right?

Sure. But, but like one of them is positive and I’m like, that’s an attitude. Yeah. Right. Because you can’t be negative. Right. And be positive at the same time. Yeah. 

[00:13:18] Brandon Sawalich: Yep. At Starkey, it’s caring, deca, dedication, and fearless. Fearless we want, because that’s kind of goes with that mindset, is we’re not afraid to try new things.

Yeah. 

[00:13:27] Charles Eide: Yeah. And you do, you, you do try 

[00:13:28] Brandon Sawalich: new things and we’re dedicated to what we do and, and, and, and who we are. We don’t lose sight of that. And we’re a caring company and ’cause you think about what we do, we’re in the hearing, uh, technology and hearing aid business, but it’s caring technology. Yeah. We connect people with people.

It’s really communication business. Yeah. 

[00:13:45] Charles Eide: Yeah. I think it’s a beautiful thing. I was listening to you on a podcast the other day and you were talking about how we’re, we’re, you know, we’re not, we’re not treating the ear, we’re treating the brain. Right. We’re creating. You know, connection between humans. I think about my dad.

He’s got some Starkey. Yep. And since he started using them, he’s a different person altogether. 

[00:14:05] Brandon Sawalich: Right? ’cause we have to make, you know, in this device, this isn’t the hearing aid that people think of, you know, 5, 10, 20 years ago. They think of, you know, it’s an age defining product. Yeah. Now it’s across generations.

Now this is a communication. This is a product, it’s a productivity. What does that do? This, it, uh, for people that need, whether mild hearing loss or profound hearing loss, uh, it makes them, it empowers them. It empowers them each and every day. Because, because of this, you know, I have a mild hearing loss, but it also connects to my phone.

So right now I’m talking to you, somebody could be feeding lines into my ears. Right. Or I could be on a call right now and they’re listening. You, you wouldn’t even know it. Yeah. Or I’m streaming music. Um, you could be 

[00:14:52] Charles Eide: listening to the Eagles in your ear right now. Yeah, absolutely. And I wouldn’t even 

[00:14:54] Brandon Sawalich: know it there, you know, there are some in other, uh, um, I’ll say, um, other, uh, uh, roles and jobs in this country that.

Pretty big jobs that, uh, they’ve admitted that they’re sitting in and they’re just listening to music because what they’re listening to isn’t worth listening to. 

[00:15:11] Charles Eide: So, oh, so you’re helping ’em live their best life either way. Yeah. We’re, 

[00:15:15] Brandon Sawalich: you know, yeah. We help people, we empower people to be the best they could be each and every day.

Yeah. We change people’s lives. And so what I was saying is not just, oh, I’m old. Yeah, no, it’s helping people, whether it’s a mom or dad, it’s their job, you know? Getting them back in the game, or you know, our products now, even if you don’t have a hearing loss, it gives you an edge. It gives you an advantage.

So, you know, 

[00:15:40] The Future of Hearing Technology

[00:15:40] Brandon Sawalich: the vision that I have for this is, you know where it’s going, is this is your personal assistant. Yeah. It’s gonna become Jarvis. Like an Ironman. Yeah. That’s why, that’s why I say you. Yeah, William and I watched all of ’em, and that’s my favorite. Ironman is the Jarvis in the ear because it’s gonna help you.

Each and every day. Yeah. It’s, it’s your productivity. Um, Kevin O’Leary, I was with him, with Damon. He loves it. Yeah. And I met him for the first time and I didn’t know what to, he came in, he like, your products? Productivity. Productivity. He’s looking at me right in the eye and I’m just listening, like, tell me more.

Right. Yeah. And he goes. I’m sitting here in a studio, or I could be waiting on news and I’m on the set of Shark Tank and people are just wasting time. Me. I’ve got these in my ear and I’m texting. It’s because I get a voice to text and stuff. He’s a busy guy. Yeah. And he’s telling me all how it’s helping him, not only with his hearing, but it’s helping him be more productive.

[00:16:35] Charles Eide: Yeah. And is it true it’ll translate? Yes. How many languages now? 78. Oh my gosh. 78 languages. Mm-hmm. 

[00:16:42] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah. 

[00:16:42] Charles Eide: So really everybody needs 

[00:16:44] Brandon Sawalich: a pair. Yeah. It’s, uh, you know, the, the goal you have to start somewhere is we are where technology allows us to be. We’re pushing the boundaries where, you know, if I am, you know, I was in Germany last week, if I’m in Germany walking around, it’s just instant.

Language, uh, simultaneous translation, you know, I don’t need the phone or anything right now. You know, we have the phone that’s listening. That’s, you know, then, uh, putting it into the hearing aids of what they’re saying. I want the product just to be able hearing. So is the number one do it 

[00:17:13] Charles Eide: onboard? 

[00:17:14] Brandon Sawalich: I’m sorry?

It does it onboard? Yes. Yeah. So if I, you know, if my phone, if I’m in German, you know, put it out here. It’s listening to you and then it’s translating into my ear what you’re saying. The goal is, you know, break down the walls of communication around the world. People need to listen more than talk and I’ll be able to li listen instantaneously as somebody speaking to me and just telling me what they’re saying.

This is fascinating. Mm, yeah, no, it is. It’s fun stuff that’s like, I wish I could think of another two words besides hearing aid and sometimes, but that’s what it is. You know, we’re FDA regulat regulated by the F fda A, it’s a medical device. Yeah. And it’s just that stigma that people have with those two words.

Yeah. But it’s going away. Yes, I’m working hard on it. Um, again, education, education, education. So if anybody has, you know, two words, send them my way. ’cause I’ve been thinking and thinking, but people still think I was hearing aids, but it’s going to continue to evolve. So 

[00:18:10] Charles Eide: you have this obsession. With this, I mean, it’s obvious.

You are obsessed with hearing. You are, you are obsessed with it. Well, it’s, 

[00:18:18] Brandon Sawalich: it’s a possibility. 

[00:18:19] Charles Eide: Yeah. It’s what’s next. Yeah. And that’s, that’s what I wanna understand from you is when you think about the, like, if you unpacked, what makes you so obsessed here? And I know it’s about helping people. I mean, that’s obvious, but where did you get that?

Is it through years of seeing problems or how you grew up or? 

[00:18:37] Brandon Sawalich: No, it’s where, where I got it. I think it’s a little bit of. When I tackle something, I, I go all in. Yeah. I think I’ve been that way my whole life. Um, this has consumed me where it’s most of I’m all in period. Right. But you make that commitment earlier in life because I wasn’t gonna get in this business No way.

I wasn’t gonna be hearing aids. No. I mean, I’ve been around it my whole life. Yeah. This was the last thing I was gonna do, just like many of us. Right. And, uh, you know, what drives me is I feel each day. No matter how I feel, I could create something or I can change somebody’s life. It could be one of our employees, it could be a customer.

I know it’s with patients, people that wear a product, but I kinda have a, I feel like I have a blank blank canvas every day. 

[00:19:25] Charles Eide: Is that because of the team you have around you? Mm-hmm. Oh, absolutely. ’cause you know, you can just. 

[00:19:30] Brandon Sawalich: Anybody, it doesn’t matter what sport or business, you’re as good as the team you put around you.

And if you have to be the smartest person in the room, if you wanna always be in charge or you always wanna make, you know, be micromanaged center, you’re not gonna go very, you’re gonna go as far as you’re gonna allow yourself. Yeah. For me, I like to just open up the doors and see what happens. 

[00:19:51] Charles Eide: Yeah. So, so when you think about scaling, you know, if you look at your career from when you first started out to when you kind of took, took the helm.

And where you’re going with it. What were the things you had to wrap your mind around in order to grow the company? I had to 

[00:20:09] Brandon Sawalich: get a, I thought I knew, I knew a lot of, when I, when I, I wanna make sure I’m answering your question right. So when I, like 10 years ago, I think you, there’s phases and I think that’s true for anyone in their role.

Um, you know, I started in really. At a time where, um, there was a lot of unknown at Starkey. Where are we at? Where are we going, as I would say, and my first priority in my mind, and is the team, and just keeping us going. So, you know, 10 years ago is different than it is now. My, my, my focus 10 years ago was learn, understand, um, ask questions, listen customers, and kind of go from an unknown.

To develop a plan. And that’s where I think you’ve gotta learn from history and, and, and your own career. You know, having the patience, um, you know, even over the last 10 years, which, which lever to pull and which wire to cut at what time. Um, because that’s where the experience and the confidence comes in.

And, you know, then you start going into, okay, who do we wanna be? I know where our competition is. I know who Starkey is now. What do we wanna be? Because in our industry, innovation and change was incremental improvements, little stuff, right? And so we had an opportunity, all right? And I remember telling Bill clearly, and we were talking at his, his house, and I’m like, you know, we have an opportunity here.

I wanna go out and find the best Chief technology officer. Again, we’re, ’cause we’re a technology company. And I said, let’s wait for the feds. Let’s take the moonshot. Because we know it’s about hearing a noise and better hearing and what people want. What can we do differently? How can we go from these everybody, incremental improvements, new marketing taglines, new colors and names of products and stuff, right?

No, I want people to really understand and hear the significant difference. And then we’ll try this other stuff. Yeah. Being health features and you know, how do you make a hearing aid from a single purpose device to a multipurpose device? Start working your way towards, um, that personal assistant. And I remember people like, oh, this is, what are we doing?

This is never gonna work. ’cause then you start, how are customers gonna talk about that? How are they gonna be able to talk to patients about, you know, putting step counters and heart rate or, you know, fall detection or all this other things in a hearing aid and. You have to start somewhere. I mean, saying no is easy.

Saying the course is easy, doing what’s hard, well let’s do it. Because for me, that’s the excitement, you know, I guess I kind of thrive on that. I get a little bit of the adrenaline going of what can we do different? And you know, what’s the worst that could happen? You just wake 

[00:23:01] Charles Eide: up in the morning and go. I think we should go for that.

[00:23:06] Brandon Sawalich: Oh, that’s at night when I go to bed and wake up. Yeah. 

[00:23:08] Charles Eide: Yeah. So is your mind always going on? Like how do we take this like to the whole new level? 

[00:23:15] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah, it’s going a lot of different areas it goes, but it’s always forward. Sometimes I find myself, you know, going back, you can’t get stuck in the past. I mean, you know, people ask me if I have regrets or, you know, would you do anything different?

Sure. You do some things, different regrets. No, because if I did it, then what if something else wouldn’t have happened because of that moment, right? You can’t, you can’t analyze or get stuck in the past. And so for me, as I’m always thinking tomorrow, next week or now, I’m, you know, of course 2026, but I, you know.

2030s on my mind a lot. Yeah. It is like, okay, new decade. So what do I, so I start kind of bouncing things around. It’s like, you know, what’s the distribution? What are people, our customers gonna need? What are the patients gonna need? Um, who is our pa who is our customer? So you start thinking about the fun stuff.

And then I think about departments and little projects that here and there and all this other things. That’s, you know, that’s where the. Chaos probably is in my head where trying to remember to follow up or do some other things or try some new things that are, that are different. Yeah. You know, right now I’m, you know, thinking about, uh, yes, it’s end of year budgeting, but I don’t look at the, you know, my CFO’s a great guy.

He’ll, he’ll tell me the, the numbers for next year. But I think, what are we doing for pro? What’s the events? Hmm. What are we doing for product launches? You know, what’s the fun stuff? Yeah. ’cause I didn’t get in this for hr. It, uh, you know, to learn about everything from distribution and. I got great people for that.

Yeah. But I had to learn it. I’m glad I did. Yeah. It’s made me better. So you got your 

[00:24:46] Charles Eide: chief 

[00:24:46] Brandon Sawalich: technology officer? Mm-hmm. They got the, yeah. Uh, I was with a, uh, um, I can’t remember the, it was a head hunter and I go, oh, we got this list of four. We expanded the net around the globe. You know, they still like on this stuff.

I’m like, okay. Uh, and, uh, they condensed it. Condensed it and it kind of got down to 20. Oh, this guy here. You know, he’s set at Intel. He’s, you know, reports to the CE. He’s working on all their new advance, the new AI stuff that’s been coming out. You know, the, the drones at the Super Bowl, I think it was with, um, lady Gaga.

She jumped off the Super Bowl. She was, did the halftime show and all the drones will. He worked on those, but he’s not interested leaving. You probably can’t afford him. I wanna talk to him. That was my mindset. I mean, yes, I love people telling me he can’t do something. Yes. Or. You can’t afford it, you shouldn’t be doing this.

And it’s okay. It might be true, but maybe it’s not. Let’s, let’s find out. Yeah, let’s find out. It’s not true. Let me decide. And so it wasn’t about that. It was, they didn’t think he would leave and he had a team of over 3000 engineers and reported the CEO EO at Intel. And so now here’s the funny story most people don’t know is we call, they call him up.

And they said, you know, Dr. Bick, this is so and so. Um, ’cause he’d worked with us head hunting firm before and he said, uh, you know, we got this company explained who we were. Are you interested? They have a CTO role. Oh, no. I’m very happy. Thank you. Appreciate so and so calling me. You know, if anything else, call again, hung, hangs up.

And then Achin, who’s our CTO, he, uh, sits back. Thanks for a second. She calls, calls the guy back up and he said, Starkey. Did you say hearing aids? And they said Yes. They said hearing aid company in Prairie, Minnesota. And he goes, is this is the owner Bill Austin? And he said, uh, yeah, it’s Bill Austin. He goes, I’m interested.

Oin went to Auburn 2006. He did a, his thesis on two CEO philanthropists, bill Austin and Bo, uh, Dr. Bo here. Swear. Nope. What? Mm-hmm. It’s serendipity. Yep. He did, he did his paper, a thesis on Bill in 2006 out of, uh, in, uh, while he was at Auburn. And, uh, so Achin flew up. I don’t even think we interviewed, I think we just talked about the possibilities and, uh, 

[00:27:17] Charles Eide: did that excite you?

[00:27:18] Brandon Sawalich: Oh, yes. I mean, what did that come? But I was learning, I mean, I was, I’m learning too. I didn’t know anything about AI or what it could do. I mean, that, that stuff hasn’t even been in our industry. Nobody talks about that. 

[00:27:26] Charles Eide: Yeah. 

[00:27:26] Brandon Sawalich: This was in 2017. Yeah. So eight years ago? 

[00:27:30] Charles Eide: Yeah. That stuff didn’t even exist. 

[00:27:31] Brandon Sawalich: No, we were saying ai, we introduced the first hearing aid with AI in 2018.

Market AI called it. Uh, you know, we put the AI tag on the, on the product. Nobody’s talking about it. No, AI wasn’t. Now it’s everywhere. Of course. Um, but you know, we’re so, but you have to start somewhere. So when we started there eight years ago, we’re that far ahead of our competition. You can’t just.

Decide to get into ai, AI and DNN and, and all this tech because every time, you know, we’re on our seventh generation, it’s learned and got that much better. You can’t just jump in and say, Hey, we’re gonna be right. We’re starky is No, because Not a chance. No. Mm-hmm. Oh, so yeah, it, it all, yeah, it always works out.

As I always say, everything happens for a reason. 

[00:28:18] Charles Eide: So when, when. When you think about, ’cause all of this is innovation, right? Mm-hmm. This is you, you have an innovation center. 

[00:28:26] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah. I, I guess that word. Um, we’ve used it and we would use it in talks, but I understand what it means of course, but we’re doing it.

Yeah. You know, we’re doing it. And I, but back then I didn’t think of it. I was just always, how do we be different? Yeah. You know, what can we do that nobody else is doing 

[00:28:39] Charles Eide: well? And what, what I, what I wanna know is, as a CEO. When you think about innovation, innovation’s very expensive, right? Innovation pulls away from profitability and growth and everything else.

How do you decide you know, where to set the bar and where you’re pushing too hard? Well, 

[00:28:59] Brandon Sawalich: it, you have to focus because I don’t care how good of a project manager or even from myself on down, mission creep, scope creep always comes in. So for us. You know, as I say, we stick to our core focus sound. Hearing this product.

Don’t get distracted ’cause you could get distracted easily. The what ifs Or we could do this. So for us it’s about the investment in technology, it’s the people, engineers, and, um, different types of. Um, products, uh, form factors. How quick do we want to come to market with a new, uh, processor? Because right now, you know, in our industry it was about every, uh, two to five years we’d have a new circuit inside the hearing aid.

I mean, now it’s about every year to 18 months at SA lot quicker. So we’re now, I told you earlier, we’re pushing the edge of, of innovation and our products are doing what technology allows us to do now because we started eight years ago. Every time I get an opportunity to invest, it’ll be in technology.

Hmm. Because we can, that’s our lifeblood, you know? That’s who we are as a company. That’s how we help people. And I have the relationship with the CTO and with the team. I know where we’re at. I know where we’re going and I know the possibility of what we could do. Yeah. So I’ll sacrifice other projects, decisions or, um, you know, uh, initiatives if I think we could get something quicker.

[00:30:38] Charles Eide: So as a, as a tech company, which you are. Yes. 

[00:30:41] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah. Everybody thinks hearing aids a manufacturer that’s been the name. Kind of the call out for 50 years is, oh, you’re hearing a manufacturer, you’re what if No, not sure. There was a time, 10 years, 15 years ago. No, we’re a technology company. 

[00:30:54] Charles Eide: You’re a technology company?

Yes, a hundred percent. And so as a technology company, obviously the current generation, and you guys just released something really revolutionary, the Omega ai. Mm-hmm. But how so that, that’s out now. Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. And that was a big, exciting launch. Yes. Yes. But when you think, when you think out. Mm-hmm.

Right? Because some things coming next. Oh yeah. How far out are you planning and thinking? Is it a year? Is it five years? Like, no, I, 

[00:31:23] Brandon Sawalich: I know what’s coming in 2030. You do? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. I’m So, we’re, it’s two circuits from now. 

[00:31:31] Charles Eide: Four years of anticipation is killing me. Yeah. 

[00:31:34] Brandon Sawalich: No, I, I know. So you already 

[00:31:35] Charles Eide: know where it’s progressing.

A small 

[00:31:37] Brandon Sawalich: group of us do. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because it’s the, it’s the possibilities because we started here. Mm-hmm. So now we’re here. Mm-hmm. And when I say here, that’s the amount of. Processing computing ai, DNN, that’s, you know, working, um, and, and mimicking the brain’s activity and, and filling in the holes of hearing loss, right?

Mm-hmm. Here. So 20 it’ll, our products in 2030 will make this thing look like a toy. 

[00:32:08] Charles Eide: See, AI is, is changing so many other things. Mm-hmm. Including manufacturing. Do you think your current vision of what 2030 looks like will change? Or is it pretty you? You’re pretty confident. 

[00:32:20] Brandon Sawalich: I’m pretty confident I want to see something different.

Yeah. But I’m disciplined and experienced enough to know that. It’s not likely. Yeah. And what I mean by that is we’re in an industry, we’re not, we’re not selling a widget. You’re gonna go buy a pair of AirPods or whatever that’s a consumer electronic device. And that’s been the mistake taken by many is that we are in the consumer electronic business.

Right. And there was a short window there, so it was a frustration, but an opportunity where I spent a lot of time in Washington, DC last 10 years educating, um, whether it’s FDA, the members on the congress, on the hill. White House others on what a hearing product is. ’cause they think of it as, you know, it’s just a, it’s an an amplifier prod.

Yeah, it’s an amplifier. Yeah. It’s something just amplifies sound and No, it’s, it’s not that My products right now, it’s very complex. It’s listing, it’s focused on you. I’ve got it set and it knows that we’re having a conversation and the person that just opened the door over there, I can think that and heard it, but it won’t.

Overshadow our conversation because the hearing aid, the technology is scanning my environment and it’s what it’s given me depth perception of in my hearing. Um, where I understand now where we’re in conversation and if I think. About what’s going on, then I can hear it. It’s like a superpower there. Yeah, exactly.

So 

[00:33:44] Charles Eide: everybody should have these. I, well, that’s, I need to get a pair. It is. 

[00:33:47] Brandon Sawalich: Well, that’s what I’ve been saying. It’s, it is, you know, what we build, it’s a superpower. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s the, the Jarvis in the ear. It’s, you know, our, our, uh, you know, it’s not really a tag, it’s a statement because of what it is.

It’s, it’s technology. You know, hearing technology is so intelligent. Intelligent. It’s superhuman. 

[00:34:05] Charles Eide: So did I hear that you said at one point. That the ear is the new wrist, the wearables. Yeah. I was going, yeah, 

[00:34:10] Brandon Sawalich: I was, I missed that. But back in 2000, you know, how are people gonna talk about it? And I said, well, the ear is the new wrist.

That was in 2018, I think. And, um, so then you, they could relate and understand. And so the ear is a, is a gateway to overall, uh, hearing. I mean, you could take your temperature here. You do a lot with the ear so we can, you know, we could do heart rate. We have, uh, products that can, um, coming out with and working with, uh, fall detection.

Mm-hmm. Which we have now. And balance. ’cause you know, yes. In age with hearing loss, there’s a risk of falling a balance. So 

[00:34:45] Charles Eide: fall detection, what does that, what does that do if someone falls over? It alerts through the cell phone. So 

[00:34:50] Brandon Sawalich: if with our products, and we’re the only ones that continued to do this, and I’ve had stories where we’ve saved people’s lives.

Literally they get the product and I could tell. You know, give, put in the, the app, um, here’s three cell phone numbers, and if I’m walking or running or whatever, and I fall, the hearing aid detects a fall if I’m wearing it and it’s gonna text you that a, a fall has been detected. And then, so no 

[00:35:15] Charles Eide: more alert button?

No, 

[00:35:17] Brandon Sawalich: don’t need that. It comes through your phone through a text and you know, it’s not for everybody. Of course, you’re not gonna sell that feature to, you know, somebody that doesn’t need it. But there are people that live alone and their loved ones want, you know, so again, we’re providing options to people.

Yeah, it’s not a Swiss Army knife. And that’s one thing we had to learn is how to talk about it, is, you know, you have to set it for the right lifestyle where people are, uh, at their life. 

[00:35:42] Charles Eide: Okay, so I want to. I want to, when you were talking about all of this and you’re talking about hearing a hearing aids and you’re like, you know, it’s not a, it’s not a sexy industry and all that.

When, when you think about. 

[00:35:55] Brandon Sawalich: Oh, it’s cool. No, it’s cool now. It’s so cool. It’s, so, I wanna say, yeah, we sell, our products are sexy, but I haven’t been able to get there. I’m comfortable saying that. Yeah. No, you’re the first say, but they’re, they’re, they’re very, 

[00:36:05] Charles Eide: they’re a, it’s a very sexy product, and what I keep thinking about is when, when you are, when you are processing in your mind how to reframe an entire, basically an entire sector.

Yeah. That’s a monster task. 

[00:36:25] Brandon Sawalich: It is. It’s it, but it’s a hill that I feel we’re climbing and we’re not falling back because that’s why I’m doing podcast. I’m not out here doing a podcast with you because I’m going to look, make my resume look good. I, I’ve been doing, spread the good word. Exactly. And I’m, you know, I’ve been doing podcasts and, and, and getting myself out there more for Starkey and for that reason, I, you know, I, I work with my buddy, uh, Damon John, and that’s why, you know, yes, we’re good friends.

We’ve been good friends for 10 years. But I, a couple years ago, I have, like, we talk about, you know, growth and market share, mind share. Hmm. How do I change people’s minds? Yeah. Influence. Then, so I started doing podcasts or interviews. It’s not because I’m trying to make money or again, get my next job, I, I would’ve one resume, uh, uh, one line on my resume.

Yeah. As far as I’m concerned, I think. Yeah. But, uh, I wanna change minds. ’cause it’s, it’s the news, the media, social media, you know, anytime there’s a story on hearing loss or somebody needs a hearing aid, they pull these pictures from 30 years ago. Yeah. I don’t remember the little 

[00:37:28] Charles Eide: squeaking 

[00:37:28] Brandon Sawalich: ones. And then I just, I don’t have to, what’s great now is I don’t have to call my team.

And marketing said they take care of it ’cause they know I’m gonna call ’em. I was just like, what? This, because it’s, it’s a, it’s a disservice whether it’s N-B-C-C-B-S something, they’re showing people that’s not reality and they’re actually, they don’t look at it like this. And I get it. There’s a lot of things going on in the world.

They’re doing somebody a disservice ’cause they’re not going to go out if they need hearing help after seeing that in the year 2025. So we’re working and, um, making progress because like I said, hearing what, you know, they’re cool, but it’s cool technology and they, and they look great. They do. They are sexy.

That’s sexy. They’re sleek. 

[00:38:07] Transforming the Hearing Aid Industry

[00:38:07] Brandon Sawalich: And really it’s a communication device. It’s not a 

[00:38:09] Charles Eide: hearing aid. So this, this brings me to something really interesting. I, you know who Mike Rowe is? Yes. So Mike Rowe, at one point he was talking about how, um, he knew this plumber and the plumber didn’t start the plumbing company because he was passionate about plumbing.

He started ’cause he was really good at it. Mm-hmm. But over time he became passionate about it because of the impact that it had on his life. Right. And I think you have taken that actually a step further, which is interesting where. Yeah. You’ve taken something that, like we were saying, wasn’t a very sexy thing.

Right? You took your, your talent and your excitement for it. You became really passionate and now you’re changing the entire perspective of a whole category. 

[00:38:56] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah. I, with that, I’ve heard my whole career at Starkey, most of my career, oh, well, people won’t buy this. They don’t like that. Hearing aids don’t sell here.

Or there’s the stigma. I’ve heard what’s wrong for so long. I’m like, what are we gonna do? What’s the solution? Let’s have some fun, right? It’s how can we make a difference? How many people suffer 

[00:39:14] Charles Eide: from hearing loss? 

[00:39:15] Brandon Sawalich: Uh, 45. Uh, 45 billion. In the US it’s about, uh, 400 or so million, four 50 million around the world.

By 2050, it’ll be close to a billion. So this is a real problem. It’s an aging population, and yes, it’s, it’s a growing problem, but people don’t take action because they don’t think. Um, I’m not gonna die from it. Ah, I’m okay right now. And what do you think when they hear hearing aids, what do you think you’re gonna get a hearing aid?

I’m old. That’s what we’re changing, because again, going back to the communication, you’ve got a whole generation, entire generation of millennials, you know, born, was it 79 to 96 something? There was one in six. Have a hearing loss. Hmm. It’s, it’s a hearing loss generation. Because of not they were asking for it.

Headphones, music, Jo. I mean, and so, so the future’s worse, or Yes. Or. They have, they’ll have a solution depending on how bad it is. But you know, when I started at Starkey in 94, it was all about the baby boomers wait till the baby boomers get into the age 60 plus, because then all of this is gonna open up.

’cause the average first time, uh, where of a hearing aid was, uh, 68 years of age, 65, 68. And so all these people are coming. Well, boomers are here. Yes, the industry’s grown, but it’s not gonna stop. Hm. The population’s growing. So we’re also in the business with our sound gear product of helping people protect their healthy hearing.

So we have hearing protection and then we have hearing solutions. Our largest customers, the VA veterans, I’ve told many centers. I was with the, um, uh, the, uh, VA secretary several months ago. And I, I told him the same thing. I hope in a couple years. ’cause you know, we’re talking about sound protection.

Let’s take care of the noise and the issues upfront. I hope you’re not our largest customer in 10 years. Yeah. Because there are solutions there. Yeah. Preventative 

[00:41:12] Charles Eide: solutions. I’ve become kind of addicted to your product actually. Yeah. I, I’ve gone in and had my ear molded and I think I have five or six of the passive sets.

Mm-hmm. And then I talked to somebody on your team and they said, you really should get these sound gear active ones. Yeah. And I was at a. Charity where you guys donated a pair and then I fought with somebody else to win it. Well, and I think you had a good 

[00:41:35] Brandon Sawalich: contact. Just come on over and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll help you out.

But yeah, it’s, it, those, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing. It’s a growing business and you know, we’re in the business to help people and then yes, you make money if you’re in the business to just go make money. You might be successful or you’re just, it’s gonna gonna be fun or you’re you’re gonna fail. Yeah. You gotta have your purpose.

[00:41:54] Personal Milestones and Legacy

[00:41:54] Charles Eide: It’s not about the money. No, 

[00:41:56] Brandon Sawalich: it’s not about the money for 

[00:41:56] Charles Eide: me. Okay. So shifting gears, ’cause we gotta come in for a landing here. Is it true you pitched at, at, at the c Are you a big Cubs fan? 

[00:42:05] Brandon Sawalich: Uh, my whole life. Yeah. Since, yeah, as far back as I can remember. What was it like to pitch? It was, um, I threw out the first pitch, I think it was on, um.

Uh, September 27th against the St. Louis Cardinals at Wrigley Field. 

[00:42:17] Charles Eide: How was that 

[00:42:18] Brandon Sawalich: surreal? Was it cool looking back? I, um, I remember I was out there, uh, on the field with my wife Jessica, and you’re, I’m just kind of soaking it all in. Like this is, I’ve WGN Harry Carey, all the 80. I mean, I grew up watching this.

My grandpa, I’ve been to Wrigley Field several times when they won the World Series. And I remember them calling, well, she looked at me and said, are you ready? I said, yes. And she goes, okay, they’re gonna announce you. Then walk out to the mound, walked out. And I remember walking out there and it’s weird and it’s, you know, it’s like a, a moment in church, right?

You walk out, everything got quiet and you feel alone because you’re right up against the crowd. You walk out to the center of that diamond and I’ve pitched, I’ve played sports, but you’re out there and you don’t hear anything. I just don’t. Looking around, like I’m not regularly feeling right. And I get up there and they had the mascot out there.

And uh, usually it used to when, you know, I used to be players, but I guess you gotta be somebody really, really, especially good player. But I got the Cubs mascot great. And I just remember seeing this big mascot. Don’t overthink it. Got up there. I just, just through it. I warmed the arm up earlier, a couple hours earlier to a vacant parking lot next to Wrigley Field.

But, ’cause I knew no matter what we just talked about. Yeah. It’s funny you brought up. It was li I never thought I’d do anything like that. And um, but I knew if I bounced that pitch, if I bounced it, that would define my career in my life. I don’t know why in my head I was like for a m. So you were too nervous?

No, I was determined. I wasn’t nervous focused. I will tell you I wasn’t nervous. I was, uh, I never got nervous. I was focused. Yes, because I knew, ’cause I look, I’ve played baseball my whole life and I knew if I overthought it or if my hand was sway or something. Anything you go around just and even asked, uh, I talked to Alex Rodriguez when I went to a Timberwolves guy.

Yeah. He said, you’re just throwing out the pitch. We were talking, he goes, just warm up. Get your slot, your arm, ankle and all this. He’s telling me, and he’s, you know, he’s really getting into me, coaching me through it. Right? Yeah. And uh, uh, I know I’m sitting there thinking like, none of this matters. It’s just gonna be what happens when I get out there.

President Bush told me personally when we were talking one-on-one. Nine 11, 2001, he threw out the pitch. That was the most nervous he’s ever been. I bet. Because he knew he had to throw a strike. Yeah. And so I get asked, you know, CEO of Starkey hearing aids go out, throw out the first pitch for the cubs.

Excited. Yes. Not gonna bounce it. Can’t bounce it. So 

[00:44:44] Charles Eide: you practiced, you were 

[00:44:45] Brandon Sawalich: ready? Oh, yes. Even would, uh, Alex texted me the morning. Go get, just remember, get that RV out. 

[00:44:52] Charles Eide: Did you feel like after you did it, were you like, did uh, yeah, 

[00:44:55] Brandon Sawalich: I did feel relief. Oh, I did. I did, it was a little outside the mascot had this big character, a cartoon glove.

He dropped it, but it was belt level. Just a little to the outside, but I’m fine. What would 

[00:45:07] Charles Eide: young Brandon have thought of that? 

[00:45:10] Brandon Sawalich: Oh, no way. No, really? No, he No 

[00:45:13] Charles Eide: way. 

[00:45:13] Brandon Sawalich: No. My, uh, sophomore high school g guidance counselor, um. Didn’t have much aspiration for me, I’m just say, and I didn’t give him much. So yeah, totally different, uh, time, but no way back then.

I mean, I lived, breathed, watched Cubs baseball forever. 

[00:45:29] Charles Eide: Oh, I’m so glad you did that. Yeah. That is a real, that’s a bucket list right there. Yeah. 

[00:45:34] Brandon Sawalich: And I, you know, it started really what I, uh, I had lunch with Ryan Sandberg, um, last August. Um, we got connected and he was my childhood hero growing up. 

[00:45:43] Charles Eide: Come on.

[00:45:44] Brandon Sawalich: Yeah. And, uh, then we, we had a, we were supposed to have lunch for an hour, we. Sat there and talked for two and like you’re in awe that now that was more, I was probably more nervous about that. I bet. And nicest man. Nicest guy. I mean, it’s like I, I had therapy for two hours of my childhood and, you know, getting insight from him and, uh, that’s what started it.

Yeah. And then, you know, he just passed, um, uh, just last almost a year to the day that we 

[00:46:10] Charles Eide: had lunch. Oh man. I’m glad you had lunch with him. Yeah, 

[00:46:11] Brandon Sawalich: yeah. I wasn’t going to, um, we were gonna wait. Um, the date he put in, it’s gonna be the fall this year. And, uh, I remember thinking, I need to go. I don’t know why. I remember thinking, I need to go because I knew he was battling cancer then.

Yeah. And so you don’t, you don’t skip those opportunities. 

[00:46:28] Charles Eide: Well, I’m glad to hear you got nervous ’cause I was nervous interviewing you today. 

[00:46:32] Brandon Sawalich: No, I appreciate. This is fun. I, I don’t even feel like we’re, I’m being interviewed, I feel like two friends are having a conversation. 

[00:46:37] Charles Eide: I love that. I have one last thing and I, I, I’m, this is how I wrap it up.

What do you wanna be remembered for? 

[00:46:46] Brandon Sawalich: A good guy? Uh, I wanna be, you know, that’s the first thing that popped outta my mouth. Um, somebody that cared to help people, you know, was, you know, good family man, uh, helped with the kids, you know, in their life. You know, I say kids, but my kids are adults. Um. But also, uh, he cared.

Yeah, I guess is a way to put it, that it wasn’t about the money. Yeah, it wasn’t about a title. Um, because I remember, uh, Bob Feller once told me, um. He was a good friend. He said, uh, you can’t take, uh, you can’t take that vault to the ban. You know, he’s talking about somebody else. Uh, you can’t take that vault to the grave with you.

You know, they, they don’t tow it behind a hearse. And, um, I’ve never been about that. I’ve been about just wanting to help be part of a team and help people be successful and feel that, feel good about what they do. Yeah. Because as at Starkey, you know, I, the, the pyramid to me is upside down. I work for everybody at Starkey.

I have to play. Yeah. I’m not worried about, you know what, I’m gonna get paid or all that takes care of itself. Yeah. Are we doing a good job taking care of our 

[00:47:55] Charles Eide: customers and am I doing what I said I would 

[00:47:56] Brandon Sawalich: do? 

[00:47:58] Charles Eide: I have no doubt you’re gonna remember like that. You’ve done that for me actually. You’ve done a lot just watching you.

You’ve mentored me from afar, so, 

[00:48:05] Brandon Sawalich: well, it’s nice to hear. 

[00:48:06] Charles Eide: Yeah. 

[00:48:06] Brandon Sawalich: I didn’t know that. 

[00:48:07] Charles Eide: Yeah. 

[00:48:07] Brandon Sawalich: But you’ve been, you and your team are always great to work with. It you, you know, our products help change people’s lives. As I tell people, and you’re part of this equation is we have to bring our products to life. We have to give them that personality so we can explain the benefit.

[00:48:20] Charles Eide: Yeah. It’s an honor to be a part of it, and it’s an honor to be with you here. Oh, I appreciate it. This was a lot of fun. Thanks for coming. My pleasure.